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It’s hard to be a comedian; it’s never just bits and punch lines. They expect you to weigh in on so much serious stuff: cancel culture, political repression. And now the latest heavy question plaguing the world of stand-up is: “Should you decline to perform at a comedy festival in a country that has arrested and jailed some of its own comedians?” The Riyadh Comedy Festival in Saudi Arabia concludes this week, but the outrage (from comedians who didn’t go) and self-justification (from comedians who did) continues.

The festival is an outgrowth of Saudi Arabia’s Vision 2030, a plan launched by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) to attract Western investment and glitz up his country’s draconian image. According to the Atlantic staff writer Vivian Salama, who has covered the Gulf states for decades, the country has changed considerably—at least on the surface. Women drive, work in different sectors, and dress more vibrantly. The country has launched a women’s soccer league and expressed interest in hosting the Women’s World Cup in 2035. But the country’s leaders still jail and harass critics, and U.S. intelligence still suspects MBS of participating in the brutal murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, which are some of the reasons why Human Rights Watch said the comedy festival “whitewashes abuses.”

In this episode, we talk to Salama and our colleague Helen Lewis, fresh back from seeing Louis C.K. and Jimmy Carr perform in Riyadh, about what happened at the festival and how to understand Saudi Arabia’s push for modernization.

The following is a transcript of the episode:

Hanna Rosin: I’m Hanna Rosin. This is Radio Atlantic. Okay, how about this for a setup: A bunch of comedians walk into a festival hosted by a country that has arrested and jailed some of its own comedians, a country accused in American courts of providing support to the 9/11 hijackers, whose leader allegedly participated in the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018, among other human rights violations. And then, days before the festival starts, a different comedian says—

Marc Maron (from Instagram): Well, there’s a Riyadh comedy festival; I don’t know if you heard about that. (Audience laughs.) Maron: This is true. There’s a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, comedy festival.

[Music]

Rosin: That’s Marc Maron, from a recent video he posted on social media.

Maron: I mean, how do you even promote that? From the folks that brought you 9/11, two weeks of laughter in the desert! Don’t miss it! (Audience laughs.)

Rosin: And then another comedian says—

Shane Gillis (from Matt and Shane’s Secret Podcast): Everyone’s like, Yeah, you should do it. Everyone’s doing it. It’s like, For Saudis?

Rosin: That was Shane Gillis, who declined to go.

Gillis: Weren’t those the 9/11 guys? (Laughter.)

Zach Woods (from TikTok): Guys, it’s that special time of year: It’s the Riyadh Comedy Festival. And all of your favorite comedians are performing at the pleasure of Turki al-Sheikh, and—

Rosin: That’s Zach Woods.

Woods: Human Rights Watch has been begging the comedians not to participate in the whitewashing of the horrors that are ongoing in Saudi Arabia. Ugh, what a cockblock Human Rights Watch is for comedy. Let’s have some fun—

[Music]

Rosin: Atsuko Okatsuka said she was offered a spot in the festival but declined. And then she posted on social media what looked like a contract, where it stated that performers could not make fun of Saudi Arabia and its leadership, the Saudi royal family, and basically anything regarding religion.

Now, the comedians who did sign on to the festival included some pretty heavy hitters: Dave Chappelle, Louis C.K., Aziz Ansari, Kevin Hart, Pete Davidson, and Bill Burr, among dozens of others. The amount they were paid isn’t known for sure, though at least one comedian has said he was offered $375,000 and that others received more than $1 million—which is a lot more than some of them make in the U.S.

In an appearance on Real Time With Bill Maher last Friday, Louis C.K. said he had “mixed feelings” about attending.

Louis C.K.