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On October 9, James Comey is due to show up in court for his arraignment. There, the former FBI director will officially learn of the charges against him, which involve making a false statement to Congress and obstructing a congressional proceeding. Presumably, Comey will plead not guilty since he’s already made a video saying, “I’m innocent.” Lindsey Halligan, the prosecutor President Donald Trump hastily appointed to carry out this mission, will probably be a little more prepared than she was at Comey’s indictment, when she initially went to the wrong courtroom and then seemed confused about paperwork. But that won’t make up for the fact that the case is, as many legal experts have said, flimsy and exceptionally weak.

If Trump was looking for an easy first target, Comey is not it. He has prime legal representation, knowledge of the system, money, and a point to prove. That’s not necessarily the case for others on Trump’s enemy list, which seems to be growing daily. The same day Comey was indicted, Trump issued a presidential memorandum directing federal law-enforcement agencies to “question and interrogate … individuals engaged in political violence or lawlessness.” White House adviser Stephen Miller has already accused California Governor Gavin Newsom of inciting “violence and terrorism,” so it seems likely this administration will define these terms broadly.

How much can a president, intent on revenge, bend the Justice Department to his will? And what forces are proving resilient against that? In this episode, we talk to the Atlantic staff writer Quinta Jurecic, who covers legal issues, and Benjamin Wittes, editor in chief of Lawfare, a nonprofit legal publication. We talk about who the Trump administration might target next, what legal strategies might work, and where the judicial system contains some surprising sources of resistance, such as grand juries. We also talk about comparisons to the Red Scare, another time in history when a president declared war on internal enemies, and why this time around is both worse and better.

The following is a transcript of the episode:

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Hanna Rosin: The showdown between Donald Trump and James Comey is what gamers might describe as a 5–5 matchup, where both players have different but equally impressive skills and advantages.

Donald Trump is, of course, the president, with the power of the executive branch behind him. The prosecutor Trump appointed to carry out the case, Lindsey Halligan, has literally never prosecuted a case in her life, so obvious weakness.

James Comey, the former FBI director who was indicted last week at Trump’s urging, is currently just a private citizen. But Comey has powerful lawyer friends who can represent him, he knows the system, and he has resources—which is maybe why, after he was indicted, he essentially said, Game on.

James Comey (from Instagram): My heart is broken for the Department of Justice. But I have great confidence in the federal judicial system, and I’m innocent, so let’s have a trial.

Rosin: So that’s the immediate news. But James Comey is, of course, just the beginning.

I’m Hanna Rosin. This is Radio Atlantic. President Trump’s list of enemies—people he’s said, at one point or another, he wants to go after—is long. It includes members of his past administration, Democrats, antifa. The same day Comey was indicted, Trump issued a presidential memo directing federal law-enforcement agencies to “question and interrogate … individuals engaged in political violence or lawlessness.” And his attorney general, Pam Bondi, got more specific.

Pam Bondi (from Fox News): Whether you’re a former FBI director, whether you’re a former head of an intel community, whether you are a current state or local elected official, whether you’re a billionaire funding organizations to try to keep Donald Trump out of office, everything is on the table. We will investigate you, and we will end the weaponization.

Rosin: Now, the Justice Department has never been exactly independent of the president; it’s not supposed to be. But Trump is testing a delicate balance that’s more or less held up since the Watergate era.

To talk about this, I’m joined by Atlantic staff writer Quinta Jurecic, who covers legal issues.

Hey, Quinta.

Quinta Jurecic: Hello.

Rosin: And by Lawfare editor in chief Benjamin Wittes, who also writes about the law—and who happens to know Jim Comey personally.

Hi, Ben.

Benjamin Wittes: Hey, good to talk to you again.

Rosin: Ben, as you know, the Justice Department is part of the executive branch. It’s the president’s job to use it to enforce the law and carry out their own priorities. So why is the Comey indictment such a big deal?

Wittes: Well, I think there are three different reasons.

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The first is that it flows entirely, as best as I or anybody else can tell, from the personal hatreds of Donald Trump.